We interviewed Frank Stella in New York in 2002, talking to him about art and the twenty-first century.

Frank Stella

It is 32 years since your Black Paintings exhibition at New York's Museum of Modern Art firmly established you on the art scene. With two retrospectives at MoMA already under your belt, do you have any goals you would still like to achieve?

My goal or dream is to make exalted art. I'm not likely to achieve it - it's the feeling of working towards it that makes me happy.

Will you know when and if you reach that goal?

It's tricky because you have to make a judgment of what exalted art might be or could be. On the other hand, if it's difficult to define just what exalted art is, it's not so hard to define what it's not. What it's not seems obvious.

Are there some forms of work that you don't consider to be true art?

To me the fine arts are printmaking and painting and sculpture. I even like architecture. The other visual world of photography and film and all that, I see as belonging to a different kind of world.

Why do they not belong in your world?

The idea of making art is not the same as the idea of being entertaining. What people now consider to be visual art is so heavily based in what I call the enemies of art - in representation, reproduction and recreation - that it seems hard to think that anything important or original is going to come out of so much attention being paid to mechanical means. It's very close to being trivial art and that's not the art that I want to make or be involved in.

So you wouldn't call those who use 'mechanical means' artists?

I suppose I could say there is a big difference between wanting to make art and wanting to be an artist and that that difference is often not appreciated enough. Wanting to be an artist may or may not be OK but I think as long as someone wants to make art they are heading in the right direction.

Which young artists do you find interesting?

The artists I like, like Richard Serra, are not really young artists but they seem young to me. I do see some relatively young artists that I like, particularly some of the younger artists from Brazil and Latin America like Nuno Ramos. And I like Nancy Rubins a lot. I guess I like rough and tumble art basically.

What is it about making your three-dimensional sculptures that you like?

There's something about working with the metal - actually the aluminium is not exactly heavy metal but the pleasure is in the combination of working with the aluminium and then making stainless steel castings. I've been quite involved in working in the foundry and I have a tremendous urge to continue that as a parallel way of working.

What about using other materials?

I have this ultra light fantasy. I certainly would like to be able to work in other materials, maybe something like Mylar or bamboo, things like that, and not to be lifting so much weight all the time. I've heard, although it sounds like a fantasy, that we're even going to get translucent cement.

How important is the juxtaposition of color and monochrome in your work?

To me the monochrome pieces are not so monochrome - in the light and the shade they're equally as alive. I never think about color. I'm not trying to be coy or arch or anything like that, I just do the color and the working of the metal denotes a certain kind of coding you can use. By and large the monochrome things are sculptural, essentially three-dimensional or floor mounted. Or they have to go outside and it's easier not to get into color outside because people have all kinds of opinions about it - how long it will last, and this and that.

You mentioned your interest in architecture. How did that evolve?

I just got into it. Someone asked me to work on a project - the Mendini brothers - for the Groningen Museum in the Netherlands. I designed a structure to go on top of a building that they had already designed. That was unsuccessful. I did a few more - for Rolf and Erika Hoffman I designed an art gallery complex for Dresden and then one more in which I took the ideas from both of those projects and did a very straightforward architectural competition for a museum in Buenos Aires. That competition was the end of architecture for me.

Why?

We built the model and it had all the architectural details such as the bathrooms, air conditioning and all that stuff. It was a buildable entity rather than a sculpture - which is what artists usually say their buildings are. If I was as wealthy as people think I am I probably would do more my own buildings, but unfortunately I can't afford it.

Looking to the future, how do you see the role of the artist in the 21st century?

For somebody like me, it's sort of tricky because, as it becomes the 21st century I feel quite secure. I can say I was such and such a kind of artist in the 20th century and so it doesn't really matter what kind of artist I am in this century. But I think the 21st century will be interesting. The most interesting thing will be to see if anything really happens, if things will be so different.

Is there inspiration to be gained from looking back on the 20th century?

When I think of the beginning of the 20th century what springs to mind is Cubism and Picasso and Braque. But at the same time that Picasso and Braque were doing something which was revolutionary, Monet was still painting the best paintings of his career. Maybe I have a fantasy of myself as being Monet and doing the big water lilies of our time, of the 21st century! But the problem is finding the Cubism of Picasso and Braque.

As you look to the future, do you have any regrets about the past?

Normally I should have said I regretted selling the paintings. But the only thing I really regret is selling my studios. I've only had four or five studios in New York and some of them were tiny, but I wish I still had them.

Why?

They were in different parts of the city and I just liked them. I've lived all my adult life in New York and I accept it. I'm not going to leave. I'm ready to retire now and if I had four or five spaces, if I had acquired them over the time I would be still happy to own them. And they haven't profited particularly by not being owned by me.



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